Senator Domingo Obende’s law on the Anti Same-Sex Prohibition legislation assented to in the Seventh National Assembly by President Good-luck Jonathan. In this interview with ADETUTU FOLASADE-KOYI, senator Obende (APC) declares that Nigeria has not infringed on the human rights of gays and that the existence of the new law has nothing to do with extension of foreign aids to the country.
Your bill, the first member bill be assented to by Mr. President, is now an Act of the National Assembly? Are you happy now?
First, I want to appreciate the leader-ship of the National Assembly and I also want to appreciate the President who without waist time assented to the bill. I must say clearly that I feel very happy, I’m quite glad because, even though it is a contentious bill and people thought this bill would never sail through or see the light of the day.
During those periods, all I kept telling people was that this bill seeks to instill morals in our younger generation and of course, as Africans, what makes us unique is our culture and our strong moral values. Honestly, I’ve always said it and I will keep repeating it that there’s no value in (the) gay culture and if there’s no value in the gay culture, it is anathema to the cultures that run through African com-munities. I feel very good and very proud that I sponsored that bill which is now an Act of the National Assembly.
Did it ever cross your mind that the law would generate this level of global controversy?
Definitely not! When I came to the Senate in 2011, I had a mindset on a couple of things I wanted to see through and ad-dress here, especially as it has to do with the preservation of the African culture. I also thought of welfare packages for not only my constituents but also Nigerians because, to me, if you want your country to move forward, to be good, you have to love your people and your people would, in turn, love the country and I felt that a couple of these things that are happening, particularly with regards to the welfare of Nigerians, will be encapsulated in a law on welfare packages which would soon be introduced to the floor for consideration and I hold the belief that the president would equally assent to it; just like this one.
These bills, as they come in, it’s just natural that I would present them to the Senate but whether it was going to generate a global controversy or wider acceptability or rejection, I did not envisage that. I just felt bringing bills to the floor for consideration was just a routine, nor-mal job for me as a lawmaker. I was very surprised to see the international community kicking against this law. They should realize that we are a sovereign nation for heaven’s sake! And as a sovereign nation, we have our right to make laws that would regulate us as Nigerians and of course, as Africans. For us to now seek permission from the international com-munity because we make laws to regulate us, which has to do with the essence of our culture, I see that as an aberration.
How do you now feel about the rejection and condemnation that trails the new law?
The rejection and condemnation has to do with the fact that those very people who rejected and condemned the bill have already moved on, in the negative part of human creation. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day, he made man and out of man, he made a woman. So, basically, that is how we are supposed to live words and opposite, if you like that analogy. But where you now insist that words would have to answer for words and opposites should also answer for opposites, then, I believe that is not God’s will because, if, assuming when Adam was created, God wanted that Adam was never going to reproduce, then, obviously, there was never going to be a woman beside Adam! So, for a man to marry a man is an extinction of grey highest order. As far as I am concerned, the condemnation has to do with the moral values of such people. It has nothing to do with us as Africans.
What informed this law in the first instance?
I’ve always said it that when you watch and read social media and a whole lot of the postings you find there today is more than enough to destroy the younger ones before they were even born. So, regulating situations of morality of this nature has to do with the fact that, one-when a city or country, as it were, has a law, then, it becomes an offence when you go against that law. When you leave a city without a law, there’s no offence. Now, there’s a country called Nigeria, now we have a law against same sex and that law must regulate us and anybody who chooses to desecrate the law knows he/she automatically qualifies for either 10 years or 14 years in prison.
Are you a Christian or Muslim?
I’m a very strong Christian, by the Grace of God.
Do you hold onto very strong Christian beliefs?
Obviously yes, I do.
Did those beliefs shape and influence this law?
Of course! You see, it is from the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaketh! Anybody you see, in whatever character or shape he is made up, it’s what is in-built in that person that is manifest in the physical. I believe it’s more of a spiritual issue than a physical issue.
Do you believe in human rights?
I believe very strongly in human rights and at the same time, let me say quite clearly here that where your human rights stops is where mine starts and the moment your rights infringes into my rights, then, of course, my rights would start from where your own infringes into mine.
And you don’t believe this new law infringes on the human rights of gay people?
No.
Why not?
Because it has nothing to do with that. The law of the land doesn’t allow whatsoever that a man should marry a man. And so, if anybody is practising it, that person, by implication, directly or indirectly, is infringing on the laws of the land and by implication, into the freedom of association and acceptability of every individual. So, basically, they are the ones infringing into our own rights; we are not infringing upon theirs.
Do you believe in consensual sex?
Consensual sex has to do with the fact that a man sees a woman and the woman accepts the man and they decide to do whatever they want to do. It’s not a man and man or a woman and a woman.
Why are you now defining the gender?
The gender must be clearly defined because in the beginning it was so. God defined the gender in the course of creation and nobody can redefine that gender; even in the natural sense of it. You’ll fin out that when they are getting married, they’ll say this man is getting married to this man and this woman is getting married to this woman. It’s not so and it can-not be so! It should be this man is getting married to this woman or conversely, this woman is getting married to this man. I think the definition of gender must follow its general, natural course.
You don’t believe gay sex can be consensual between two adults?
Never! I don’t believe so. There must be a nut that has been somehow loosened that has to be re-tightened.
How do you feel now that your law will make Nigeria lose some foreign aids?
Well, I listened to the Ambassador of the United States of America who clearly stated that this law has nothing to do with withdrawal of aids to Nigeria and that they do not believe plan and neither do they intend to withdraw aids from Nigeria and I don’t think any country, that is a sovereign country, will want to, because of the internal law of another country, want to withdraw aids if actually they are there to render humanitarian assistance.
Why is APC not following the rules concerning defection in the chamber?
The APC is not poaching any senator in the chamber. Please, let’s get that right. The reality on ground is that some states where the senators are coming from is that their states have now joined the APC and since the states are now APC, he local politics suggests that they have to join the train.
They must work with the trend of what is happening in their states by reasoning of defecting to the APC in the chamber. But what’s on ground is that some lawmakers went to court that their seats should not be declared vacant and what we are saying is that that happened in the House of Representatives and not in the Senate and if this thing is going to happen in the Senate, they should allow our colleagues to exercise their rights.
Somebody said I’m no longer interested in the marriage I have with you and here you are, insisting that you must marry me by force! We remember that PDP once said that if they go, they would celebrate. I thought it’s a lot easier to let them go so that they can celebrate!
But the matter is subjudice.
And we say, and we insist and we maintain that that Order 53 (5) talks about declaring the position vacant. They have not even defected, let alone declaring their positions vacant. They should allow the defection first. As far as I am concerned, whether they are allowed to publicly defect or not, they are with us in APC.
The Sun