Despite the security challenge confronting the present administration, Senator Olabiyi Durojaye, an octogenarian, is still highly optimistic that Nigeria will fulfill its destiny as a great nation. However, in this interview, he challenges President Goodluck Jonathan to be more decisive in dealing with the problem of Boko Haram insurgency. According to him, there is need for a little bit of ruthlessness in dealing with the crisis. Excerpts:
Having watched the scenario at the national conference, what are your expectations from the dialogue?
It started on a wobbling note with some people threatening to pull out of Nigeria, but it will stabilize. I have had the experience before; these are not unexpected. I was in the 1988/89 Constituent Assembly; there was a lot of fire and brimstone. But in the end, we succeeded despite all the odds.
70 percent majority has been adopted as a benchmark for decision making at the conference. How is this likely to affect consensus building on major issues?.
Anywhere in the world, there are two majorities-simple majority (51 percent upward) and 2/3 majority (66.7 percent) on critical issues. But if conceding to 70 percent majority is what will save Nigeria to make us a regional power in Africa and a world power in future, the sacrifice is worth it. If I were there, I would have certainly kicked against 70 percent as being too high, but at the same time I would have conceded to a peace saving situation. So, if that is what we need to keep us together as one great nation to fulfill our destiny and make our people happy, then it’s worth it.
If they are going to address fundamental issues like resource control, fiscal federalism and so on, how would they be able to reach concensus with 70 percent which everybody is saying is too high?
Don’t let us speculate. But those fundamental issues must be resolved. If we are not able to agree on those issues, then we should revert to 1960 constitution which our founding fathers agreed on and which was the basis of independence granted to us by the colonial power. All we need to do is to have six regions we have now as federating units instead of three. I don’t know of any Nigerian who will say he does not respect or recognize Nnamdi Azikwe, Sadauna of Sokoto, Obafemi Awolowo, Aminu Kano, Anthony Enahoro and other architects of the 1960 constitution as national leaders and heroes. If we all agree that these are our leaders, then we cannot presume that we are wiser than those people or greater than they were . If we cannot bring an improvement on what they laid down, then let’s revert to what they laid down. That constitution recognizes fiscal autonomy with residual powers lying in the federating units. Then, the regions had lots of responsibilities and powers including police. That is what we should do. Anybody who really loves this country should agree to that.
Before the inauguration of this conference, the National Assembly had already set in motion the process of amending the present constitution. Since the mandate of the conference is to also evolve a people’s constitution, how is this going to play out without a clash of interests between these two bodies?
What is happening is more fundamental than mere legislation. People are making the ground norm that forms the foundation law of the country. There is a difference between making a constitution and making a law. Making of the laws, entering into treaties are routine things for the National Assembly, but making a constitution is a once-and-for-all event in the life of any nation. That is what the conference is supposed to do. It is that constitution that will now define what powers should be assigned to the National Assembly in future and how amendment can be done. But since there is already a National Assembly in place, when the new constitution comes, they can show respect to the National Assembly to handle and process their recommendations without any alteration. When that is done, it becomes law of the land. In fact, with a referendum, it is already the law of the land. Giving the National Assembly the right to be a part of the action is just mere formality.
Is there any need then for the National Assembly to pass an act that will legitimize what the conference has been assigned to do?
It is not necessary; it is bigger than the National Assembly. If people want Nigeria to work, Nigeria will work. Nigeria has a good chance of being a great nation. We are a blessed nation only some people are just selfish.
How can the leaders of thought come together to find a solution to the security challenge facing the country?
It appears those who matter are not sincere. If they are sincere, we can find solutions to it. Mr. President should wake up to his responsibility. It is a ruthless situation; he must use ruthless means to solve it.
If this insurgency is not checked before the next general elections, do you see Nigeria weathering the storm?
Come rain, come shine, Nigeria will survive. As a Christian, I believe that God doesn’t make mistakes. This is a great nation; we should not allow people with little minds to ruin this country for us. There is an advantage in our number and in our size. It is up to those who want to break it into pieces. The section I belong to cannot be the loser for it. But it is better we are all together as a nation and find a way to tackle those challenges that have been inhibiting us. Having enabled Nigeria to come together over a hundred years in a very fertile section of African soil in such a large number with fine intellect, I don’t think God will like to see it flounder. This nation needs a little bit of iron hand. The nation is at war with itself. Let the government find the courage to arrest and prosecute and let the court find the courage to sentence any culprit no matter how important that individual may be. Anybody caught with bombs or ammunitions should be charged with treason and the penalty for treason is death. By the time some big names are sent to the great beyond for disrupting order of the society, I think others will sit right.
Despite the myriad of problems confronting the people of this country especially the downtrodden, the National Bureau of Statistics came out recently to declare that Nigeria is the largest economy in Africa. In your own opinion, how has that translated to an improvement in the lives of the ordinary Nigerian?
I don’t see how it has impacted on the lives of the people. Figures can be very deceptive. The real test is what is on the table for the poor man to eat. Today, we have an army of children that are not employed and in fact are unemployable because the quality of education is very low. It is a vicious circle. You need to be 81 like I am to have seen Nigeria as a better country before now. In the 1950s up to 80s; Nigeria was a better country and a happier people. The statistics at that time didn’t show that we were the largest economy in Africa but we were happier people. Of what benefit is bigger income figure but poorer people? Statistics show that we are better off but the reality on ground shows that we are worse off. We should stop deceiving ourselves by quoting bigger figures without food in the tummy of the people, without employment, with the threat of Boko Haram. Of what use is statistics showing that you are okay but the people are hungry and unsafe?.
APC governments in the Southwest claim that education is free up to secondary level….
(Cuts in). It is not a claim, it is a reality.
But higher education in the region is the most expensive in the land….
(Cuts in). I don’t know what you really mean. There is scarcely anything of value whose price is not high because there is inflation in the country. But you wouldn’t deny the fact that school children are being given free meals with eggs in some states in the Southwest.
But it’s the common saying of you elders that when you teach a child how to fish, you feed him for life. Don’t you think that what they actually need to realise their potential is quality and accessible education?
Education is being imparted. The government alone cannot do it. We should supplement what the government is doing. And that is why we have Yoruba Educatiion Trust Fund.
But Awolowo did it, didn’t he?
Circumstances were different. Don’t compare Awolowo’s circumstance and time with now. Awolowo operated in the ‘60s and ‘70s. And I told you Nigeria was a better place in the ‘60s up to ‘80s. So, you are coming back to what I said before. At the time of Awolowo, agriculture was the mainstay of the economy of the country. We had cocoa in the West, palm oil in the East, groundnut pyramids in the North and rubber in the Mid-west. Every area developed agriculture and education was salutary and strong. Teachers were well trained and dedicated. It is not so today. Today there’s decadence. So, societal values have altered and nosedived. When we were young, we were taught to be honest, loyal, to fear God and respect constituted authorities and elders. We grew up to be honest and hard-working citizens.
Today, students play about the whole place, form cults and cut corners. They throw bombs around not only in the North by Boko Haram, but in the whole country. Just recently, some hoodlums in my home town traced a fine gentleman to a church and shot him dead. We don’t know yet who the assailants are. I pray the police find out. This is in the Southwest where things are a bit calmer. Look at the awful exposure about the evil forest in Ibadan too. People pretend to be mad and yet they are dealers in human parts. It is unheard of.
So, the people themselves need a new reorientation but the leadership should come from government. They should show the light so that people can follow as Zik used to say. We as a people are not serious. We are not better than those in government. Everybody is seeking political office to loot. You need to see the acrimony with which people are looking for positions. We are already in the season. We are too old to contest for positions now, but these younger people are desperate about getting positions. In our time, we were all ambitious, we were all hard-working and we tried to serve our people.
The Sun