Former governor of Osun State, former national chairman of the defunct Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) and a national leader of the All Progressives Congress (APC), Chief Bisi Akande, speaks with KATE ANI on a wide range of issues, including politics and his private life. Excerpts:
One of his aides had hinted me that “baba is on his way to Lagos. The helicopter that will take him to Abuja is waiting.” However, sitting on a couch, clad in a white flowing agbada and a cap to match was Chief Bisi Akande and to my surprise, his signature toothy smile lighted up the room as he welcomed me warmly into his Oluyole, Ibadan home. Instead of a hasty interview lasting just a few minutes, we ended up chatting for more than 90 minutes as he laughed heartily in-between some responses.
Is it true that you started your politics with the conservative National Council of Nigeria and the Cameroons (NCNC)?
I have never been a member of the NCNC. The truth of the matter is that, until I joined the Awolowo’s politics, the people of my town and constituency were NCNC. I was a student then; there was very little I could understand about politics. But when people danced around the streets, you know, as a young man, I would dance and sing along with them. I was with them but didn’t know what was happening. But as I was growing older, particularly, starting from the crisis of the Action Group, I started taking interest in reading newspapers and that led me to read Chief Obafemi Awolowo’s autobiography. I read a book on Nnamdi Azikiwe’s early life and also, Ahmadu Bello’s book, ‘My Country Nigeria.’ After I read those three books, there was no doubt in my mind about the leader I was meant to follow. And from that time, I admired Chief Awolowo. I had been a councillor twice and elected to the constituent assembly before Chief Awolowo sent for me through Senator Ayo Fasanmi. That was in 1977. I prepared my questions like you are doing now. I interviewed him for about two hours and 10 minutes. I was satisfied that he was to be my leader, and he became my leader. As an individual, I was never a card-carrying member of the NCNC but all the people in my community were NCNC. From NCNC, they moved with Akintola to NNDP (Nigerian National Democratic Party) and so on. But I met Chief Awolowo and he requested me to work with him and I did. I went back home to change my people’s mind and from that time till today, the progressives have never lost an election in my constituency.
At what point did you meet Chief Awolowo and became his disciple?
Like I told you earlier, I met him in 1977. First of all, I knew him by reputation. As a young man, he was the premier of my region. That was when I started to know him. I was a student then and I didn’t care a hoot. I didn’t know the meaning of ‘premier,’ but as I grew up, I knew him in appearance too. When he was released from prison, I took interest in his life. I wanted to be in the gatherings that he was. That time, I was not a politician; I was working with an oil company. When I was to become a politician, I would say it was Chief Awolowo who introduced me to partisan politics. I was a leader in my community. I was a councillor for nine years and was elected to the constituent assembly in 1979 and it was at that place that Chief Awolowo sent for me, not that I started politics with Chief Awolowo. I wasn’t a partisan politician and was an accepted leader of my people when I met Chief Awolowo and he said, ‘oh, let’s work together to form a party’ and we formed the UPN (Unity Party of Nigeria) together.
What really caused the rift between you and your first deputy governor in Osun State, Iyiola Omisore?
There was no rift at all. The only thing is that the upbringing of both of us is not the same. I come from a poor background and I have never been wealthy all my life. I was not poor either. I was working with an oil company, earning a good salary, but I was not trained to be corrupt at all. I abhor corruption in all spheres. I don’t touch it. I don’t encourage it. I don’t do deals with people who are corrupt. I don’t negotiate anything that would bring personal benefit to me, but Omisore was a very heavy spender. As deputy governor, he would always let me see that he was not done with his statutory income because as a governor, I was earning a salary and he too was earning a salary but he always made me understand that his salary was too small for him and I didn’t know how else to augment it. I encouraged him to be contented. That was the beginning of the misunderstanding, because I wanted to keep within my income and didn’t want any extra kobo of government to run into my affairs, but he was a heavy spender. Maybe he had been a heavy spender before I knew him, but when we got to government, I saw him to be a very heavy spender and it was not my way. I always wanted to keep within my reach.
Is it true that he registered the Alliance for Democracy (AD) and even financed your election?
He never financed my election and he never registered my party. If you ask Mrs Kofoworola Bucknor-Akerele (former Governor Bola Tinubu’s deputy), she would tell you how our party was registered. We adopted a name and asked her to go and register it. When she got to INEC, somebody had stolen that name and she came back and said, ‘Look, I couldn’t get this party registered.’ So, we asked our leaders, Bola Ige, Lulu Briggs, Adebanjo and one other person to give us a name and they did. They wrote it on a piece of paper and we gave it to Kofo Bucknor to, again, register it. Whether she took money from Omisore, she never told me. So, I don’t know if Omisore registered our party, but Kofoworola was sent by us to go and register the name ‘Alliance for Democracy (AD).’ As for my election, I didn’t spend any money on it at all. I gave money to nobody. My nomination was almost automatic. I didn’t know about it; I just came to understand that I had been nominated as governorship candidate. And from the time of my nomination to the time of my election, if I spent up to N50, 000, I used such money to buy petrol for my car or to buy soft drinks for my friends. And I don’t think I spent so much to become governor. Maybe he spent a lot in his own area, but he never bankrolled my election. What did I buy? Nothing! As for the cars and vehicles we took around during the rallies, Chief Bola Ige provided them. Maybe he gave money to Bola Ige, but he never bankrolled my election. Maybe he can tell you what he bought with the money because I didn’t give anybody any money. Maybe he was giving people money.
Maybe on your behalf…
It couldn’t have been on my behalf because we never took a decision that said ‘go and give people money.’ Many people donated money to us, which we deposited in the party’s kitty. They even told me that Omisore borrowed a little out of it, which he never paid back. A lot of people donated to us. You know, when they donate, I would tell them to put it in the party’s kitty. The farmer in Osogbo, Tunde Badmus, gave us N200, 000. Even former Inspector-General of Police, Tafa Balogun, gave us N40, 000 or something. Many people gave us money and we would put them in the party’s kitty. That was what we used for office maintenance, salary of staff and rent. That was what we spent the money on. So, which is bankrolling? It is unlike now, when the PDP (Peoples Democratic Party) has monetised politics. That time, you didn’t need money to win an election. Omisore asked me, ‘How did you do it?’ Everywhere we went, people trooped out, from villages, cheered us on and praised us. He asked me how I did it and I told him that it was a mark of credibility. We had ruled. Bola Ige and I had ruled Oyo State before and we were credible, popular and respected and that carried us to form Afenifere and Afenifere was very popular. So, the moment they heard we were in a party, people would turn to that party and Omisore, who was in my car, would wonder and marvel how people supported us in large numbers. I never spent money to become governor. So, if he bankrolled my election, he should tell you what he bought with the money and to whom he gave the money. I never held a meeting with him or told him to give anybody money and nobody demanded money from me.
As governor then, despite the fact that you were happily married, you had no first lady. How did that come about?
I had my wife, a very good woman and I respect her. She gave me good children. She never contested election with me and I told her, ‘Mama, your place is in my home, in my kitchen.’ She understood perfectly and kept squarely to it. So, it was an agreement between me and my wife. She is my wife and we are happy together.
Then who performed all the functions that a first lady performs?
In which constitution did you read the functions? Which law? It is a lawless function. I don’t believe that the office of the first lady is necessary at all. I didn’t keep one. My wife and I never believed it was a necessity. It is not written in our constitution. It is not written in any law. I don’t see a reason for it and I didn’t do it.
What is your political ambition now?
The only ambition I have in politics now is for Nigerians to be ruled by good leaders. Today, Nigerians are being ruled by lawless leaders, who do not care about them. For instance, on Saturday, I travelled between Ilorin and Ibadan and I saw hell between Ogbomoso and Oyo. There was no road there at all. In other words, Oyo State is disconnected from Kwara and if you want to connect Oyo State with Osun, you will see how bad the road is. Osun is not connected with Ondo by good road. Osun is not connected with Kwara by good road. Between Ajase and Offa, you can’t drive, and that is the situation everywhere in the country. So, it is like the country has no government. I want Nigerians to be ruled by a government, not by selfish people that are there now.
You once accused Chief Olusegun Obasanjo of dragging the leadership of the Yoruba body to the floor of comic gymnastics only to leave it dead. Can you shed more light on that?
Olusegun Obasanjo had been the president of this country and he is back at his home, resting. Why do you want me to talk about him again?
Probably to shed more light on the allegation you levelled against him.
I don’t remember saying that.
You were quoted by one the national dailies.
No. I have never mentioned Olusegun Obasanjo’s name in the last three years.
What is your relationship with him now?
Oh, like good friends, good Yoruba leaders that meet at various places. You know, I don’t just pick a person and start talking about him, either for good or for bad, but I talk about ideas. When a leader has an idea that is contrary to my own, I would oppose him. Obasanjo doesn’t talk against my party nowadays, or against the policy of my party, so, why do I need to talk about him?
You were very close to the late Chief Bola Ige. You were fondly referred to as his nephew. Who killed him? Why do you think the mystery has not been unravelled?
Bola Ige was killed by the PDP Federal Government and when a government kills you, the mystery can never be unravelled. The government owns the police, army and judiciary, everything that can make you unravel a mystery. The PDP Federal Government killed him.
Do you think his killers will ever be found and brought to book?
Well, the Federal Government is the killer. Who they sent or who pulled the trigger is unnecessary now. I know that the killing was masterminded by the PDP Federal Government and when a government kills you, you are gone for good. Some other government has been killing people. It is satanic but it was them.
Atiku Abubakar and Muhammadu Buhari are slugging it out to clinch your party’s presidential ticket. Who should really have the ticket between the two and why?
When the nomination form closes, that is when you will know who will emerge as the candidate because now, we are in the process of ‘come and show your intention, those of you who want to be a presidential candidate.’ Only two people, I think, have shown intention. There are many more. When the nomination form has closed, I will be able to compare and contrast and say this is the leader we are going to vote for. But for now, I will not preempt those who have not come out. I know my friends Atiku and Buhari had signified their intentions and I know that many more will still signify their intentions, because we are encouraging people to signify their intentions. Our party is very popular, everybody wants to participate and associate with us. You don’t even know whether I am going to throw my hat in the ring too! So, don’t let me say that one is better than the other, because at the end of the day, there will be one that will be better than the best.
Do you believe that a Muslim-Muslim presidential ticket can work for APC in 2015?
I don’t link religion to politics. My religion is a matter of me and my God and my politics are about my relationship with the people. It is only in Nigeria that they bring religion into politics and the moment we allow that, it is the beginning of the ruin of this country. Look at Sudan. There is no place where you use religion for politics that would never crash. If you see people talking about religion and politics, run away from the place; it doesn’t matter whether they are Christians or Muslims. And why are you talking about Muslim-Muslim ticket? We vote for only one man, we vote for the president, we don’t vote for the office of the vice president. The vice president is in the waiting, like some people would say, he is a spare tyre. Only the president is the ruler, the spare tyre doesn’t do anything until something happens to the president. So, why are you talking about religion of one in relation to the other? Only cowardly politicians talk about religion.
Some people have accused you of using derogatory words and unprintable names when attacking your party’s opponents. What exactly is your grouse about President Goodluck Jonathan?
I don’t know what people mean by saying I use unprintable names. I find a name that fits any person at any situation and I use it on them. I have no grouse about President Jonathan as a person, but he is not fit to rule Nigeria. He is clueless. He doesn’t even understand the diverse cultures of this country. He doesn’t know how to move forward. I have sat with him and discussed Nigeria with him and my assessment of him is that he is not fit to rule this country. You are a Nigerian, is the security of this country good? If you say yes, I would be worried. Is the economy of this country good? If you say yes, I would be worried. What again do you want in politics other than to be secure and be employable and employed? Our educational institutions are in tatters. The health sector has collapsed. So, tell me, what is good about his administration? Have you not been travelling out of the country of recent? You see how they treat Nigerians because we are Nigerians. We are pariahs in the whole world. How do you expect a human being that has senses in his head to be carrying $15 million cash from this country to another country? Something you can do by electronic transfer within three minutes and it will get there in this age of computer? Only clueless people do that. Only lawless people do that. It is against the law of Nigeria. It is against the law of South Africa. How do you expect lawless people to rule us? Only lawless people do that and I don’t want lawless people to be my rulers. I don’t know who you want, but I don’t want lawless people to lead me.
The presidency has accused your party of politicising the issue of the Chibok girls and using it against the PDP-led administration ahead of 2015. What is your reaction to this?
It is the Nigerian people and the international community that are using his uncaring attitude about the Chibok girls against him, not APC. Is it the APC that asked him to be denying that the girls were kidnapped for the first 19 days of their being taken away? Was it the fault of APC? Even when he knew that they had been adducted, he didn’t know what next to do. Is that the fault of APC? Even if he knew what to do, he doesn’t have the capability to do it. Is that also the fault of APC? Why is he saying that it is APC that is politicising it? I don’t know.
You started as a grassroots politician and rose from a councillor, Secretary to the State Government to deputy governor of the old Oyo State, governor of Osun State and a former interim chairman of the biggest opposition party in Nigeria. Would you describe yourself as a fulfilled politician?
I am very fulfilled not because I occupied the positions you have mentioned, but because I have not been inordinately ambitious about any position in my life. My attitude in politics was to serve, whether as a follower or as a leader and to serve conscientiously. I didn’t go into politics to look for money and I didn’t come back disappointed. I was the national chairman of a heavyweight political party for 11 years and I never earned one kobo for doing so. I was not given any salary. I was doing it as contribution to the betterment of this country. Go and find out. I was the national chairman of AD, AC, ACN and APC. In all these positions, I never collected salary. There was no voucher for me to sign for salary and no money was fixed for me. I didn’t take money for transportation or hotel. I did it as a sacrifice for my party to grow. So, I am fulfilled because I had the opportunity to serve the people through those platforms.
Who is your role model in politics?
Chief Obafemi Awolowo, no doubt.
Many people say that you walk in the shadow of Senator Bola Tinubu…
He too walks in my shadow. All my friends in politics, I walk in their shadows and they walk in mine. What is wrong with that? It depends on how you look at it. When you came now, you met me in my house. For a month sometimes, I don’t see Bola Tinubu. I don’t even talk to him for a month sometimes but when we meet, we embrace each other and are happy together. We have the same ideas, the same politics. We have the same goals and we are pursuing them in our own different ways. So, whoever sees me in Tinubu’s shadow, if he looks very well, he will also see him in my own shadow. That is the truth.
What gives you the greatest happiness as a politician?
Like I said, I always love serving and I served selflessly. When I had the opportunity to serve the people selflessly, I feel happiest.
Any regrets?
My regret is that good people are not allowed to rule this country and the country is sinking for it. It is a big regret.
Looking back at your childhood, was there a time you ever dreamt of making it big in life as you have today?
I always thought big. When I was in primary school, I would always go to the cashew plantation and behave like headmaster of schools. Later in life, I was always seeing myself as a leader and very early in life, I was leader in the association I was involved in my community like secretary, chairman and president of various clubs. I belong to big places in my society. I was made the Asiwaju of Ila Orangun, the Orangun of Ila and I have always associated in big places, so, I dreamt big and if what you see in me now is ‘bigness,’ the way I am dressed is the way you see me. The only thing is that I am not rich and I don’t regret it at all.
But you must be very rich, having held big political positions…
I am not rich. You can say that I am famous and popular, but I am not rich. I am famous because I am selfless. If I had been selfish, I would be wealthy but I refused to be selfish. Nobody that comes across my life, whether a civil servant, contractor or a politician, nobody can tell you that I have had a deal with him to make money for myself. I always work and I prefer working and serving people.
Between your father and mother, who made more impact in your life?
The two of them. I knew about that impact when my father died. I knew I had lost something big. You know, he was somebody to whom I run to when I have fears. I was still young when my mother died too. When my mother died, I knew something went out of my life. So, the two of them were very impactful in my life when I was a small boy, it was my father that I looked up to for my school fees and everything and when he died, I turned to my mother for care. But because I was young, when both of them died, they remained vey impactful in my life and I think about them always.
Do you encourage any of your children to go into politics?
Oh no! I encourage them to be very well educated. I told them, if they don’t make a degree in Nigeria, they would be seen as dropouts. They all made their degrees in Nigeria. I told them: ‘If you don’t have a profession, you are doomed!’ And they all went out and made professions. Some of them are accountant, medical doctor, lawyer and pharmacist. They are all doing well. They are happy because from the beginning, I told them: ‘Look, you have to be good children by being very well educated.’ In my days, we had no opportunity to go to school but in theirs, there are many universities in the country. So, I told them that they must be Nigerian university graduates and they would always compete among themselves. Some went to University of Ibadan, some to University of Lagos. Those in Ibadan would refer to themselves as belonging to the first university in Nigeria, while those in Lagos would refer to them as belonging to the village university in Ibadan. They make jokes at home and I love it. They are all doing well in life.
You come from a Muslim background, from Ila Oragun, where tradition encourages polygamy. Why are you a monogamist? Or are there other women in your life?
I am married to one wife because I am poor. If I had money, I could have married many, but because I was born poor and I didn’t want to remain poor, I decided to keep to one woman and I don’t think I have gone against the tenets of my religion by so doing. I am still a Muslim.
What attracted you to your wife?
In my view, she is a very beautiful woman, loving and caring. I didn’t know until I started having children. But the reason I married her then was because she was a good cook. I got married because I loved good food and my wife was giving me good food.
What is your favourite food?
Pounded yam and egusi soup. In my place, we take it three times a day but now, I manage to take it about two times in a week.
How and where did you meet her?
We met at a football field. We were both spectators. She ran into my hands for protection when she was being threatened by somebody. And from that moment, we became friends. We went out for about seven years before we got married.
What is the greatest book that you have ever read?
I read the Bible and the Qur’an all the time. These are the two books I read very often. I have read many other great books, some of which I can’t remember again. Many of the books I read were very good but nowadays, I read the Bible and the Qur’an interchangeably.
It is said that you don’t take tea, but drink efinrin leaves. Is that the secret of your good health?
That is not true. I drink tea. I drink all things that people drink. I don’t have a special drink, but I drink palm wine a lot.
I was about asking you that because your hometown is well known for palm wine tapping and drinking…
Yes. If you come now, it is a pity you met me in Ibadan, if you were at Ila, maybe you would have met me drinking what we call stale palm wine, the one of yesterday. Each morning when I wake up, after enjoying my wife’s good food, I would sip some tumblers of palm wine. I take tea like you do, but not coffee, because it gives me some problem. But I take all kinds of tea; ginger, green, yellow, all kinds of tea. I don’t have a special tea. When I get to a place, I would ask them if they have tea and if they say yes, I would demand for a cup. Also, I don’t have a special food, I eat all things.
You are distinguished for your wide, toothy smile. Do you ever frown? Is that the secret of your youthful look?
Honestly, I don’t know how I came about it but I learnt from my younger days that I should always feel happy about all things and a smile in the face is a reflection of the way you think. When I see people, I feel happy about everybody, particularly when they are behaving well and I try to express my happiness about life generally by smiling. It has become my medicine, something that makes me feel good all the time. I don’t frown. I don’t hate people. Even when they do wrong, I would feel amused, smile at you and go away. I don’t fight with anybody. I don’t quarrel. I take things like a joke because the concept of life itself is like a joke. You might do something a little queer or unacceptable, but when I see it, I would accept it as your own way and smile about it, forget and move away. I don’t allow it to enter into me. I don’t carry things in my head or mind for too long.
How is your party getting ready for 2015 elections?
We are winning straight away. If you are moving around, you will know that everywhere in the country, they are waiting to vote for APC. We are only waiting for our candidates. As soon as we have a candidate, you will see us moving round and the whole thing will start bubbling. We will push PDP out of power and take over. In 2015, we are taking over.
PDP has vowed to wrest power from the APC in the South West. Can APC handle the heat?
They are trying to take the Yoruba people for granted, but they will soon know what we are up to. In 2015, they will know that it is not easy to take us for granted. They have been trying to intimidate us but the Yoruba people are never known to submit to intimidation.
If APC happens to be elected as president, what would you do about the problem of Boko Haram?
Boko Haram will be a thing of the past. We will make education universal and those who are joining Boko Haram will go to our school, but I won’t tell you how we will do it. We have a lot of attractions for the northern youths. Part of what we have in mind, just like I told you, is to use education to change the minds of the people who are joining Boko Haram into learning and we will make employment available to all the youth so that nobody will be attracted to join Boko Haram. I have told you what we are going to do but the methodology is what I won’t disclose. It is for my party.
Do you agree that they should be given amnesty?
I don’t know, honestly. I don’t think about Boko Haram because I don’t think they should exist in the first instance, but bad government brings about criminal people. Lawless government will always produce criminal followers. So, it is the lawlessness at the top that is creating all these criminals among the followers.
What is your take on the inaugural speech of the Ekiti State governor, Mr Ayo Fayose? Many have raised an eyebrow about most of what he said, especially the stomach infrastructure part.
Ayodele Fayose is a young man attracted to politics not because of ideas, he was like one of these roaming young people in the streets who had nothing to do and decided to go into politics. I remember saying it in Ado Ekiti one time that if Ekiti people were not careful, Fayose would turn their university into a giant poultry farm. That was in his first coming, So, if in his second coming, he says he is going to promote stomach infrastructure, it is because he never grew from an idea; he just saw people going into politics and he decided to follow them. And Fayose is just like President Goodluck Jonathan. So, why are you surprised?
Where do you see Nigeria in the next 10 years?
In the next 10 years, I think Nigerians will just be breaking even, because the damage being done to it is so much. Everybody feels that politics is for money making. What I see now makes me sad. People, even those in secondary schools, believe that their next job is to join politics. Everybody feels that unless you go into politics, you can’t make money and it makes me wonder what we are turning politics into. I think it is only those that would spend their money in politics that should be in politics and not those who go into politics to make money. The moment we achieve that, Nigeria will start developing. But if people continue to have the mindset of going into politics to make money, the country will never be good. The country will remain in the hands of selfish people. I don’t know why people should think that there should be money in politics, but because people are stealing money with impunity, they tell themselves: ‘Oh, let’s go into politics and steal.’
Is this applicable to actors and actresses who have shown interest in contesting for electoral positions?
Everybody feels like ‘oh, this job is no more paying, let me join politics.’ I don’t know many of them, but I don’t think it is right to go into politics with the intention of making money. It is better to have money and spend that money on politics but to go to politics to make money, it is an abomination. It is not good and that is what is destroying the country. Until we are able to change that orientation, we won’t have it well in this country and it happens in a country where nothing is produced. You know, Governor Abiola Ajimobi was lamenting the other time, when I met with him to commiserate with him concerning the Molete fuel tanker disaster, that if you go to the streets, everybody distributes and sells things that are imported into this country. We don’t struggle to produce and export, we struggle to import and distribute. If we produce here and export, you will see that all our graduates will be employed and non-graduates would be employed but nobody thinks like that. Everybody thinks of going there to import into this country for us to distribute among our people. It is an economy turned upside down.
The moment we have it right, things will start going on well. But it happens like that because most people steal government’s money to import. Aliko Dangote tries to produce in Nigeria, things like flour, cement and sugar, while some people are falling over themselves stealing government’s money to buy things from abroad and bring them here. Until we change that orientation, things will never go right. Come to Ila and see me in my village, I am trying to produce from my garden, vegetables, okra and other little things like that. Although this is not much, I try to at least, produce what my wife would cook. Until everybody thinks of producing something, Nigeria will never get it right. Most Nigerians don’t wear anything made in Nigeria, only foreign designers and that is very bad. Until we start doing it here by supporting our own, we won’t get it right and it is so because people are stealing from government with impunity. The leaders are criminals. The followers are criminals. Everybody is alike.